REAL info: "illegal exhaust" ticket. VCs 27150 27151 2804.

it seems there is a lot of confusion and bad information out there about "illegal exhaust" tickets. half the people out there don't know what constitutes an "illegal exhaust" and the most others think they know the law because "ma boi told me what's up". please keep "i heard a friend of a friend" blah blah out of this thread. i am only posting this to end all the hearsay that goes on regarding getting a ticket for a loud exhaust. i have done all this research after getting my own ticket, a few years back. it occurred to me some officers either don't understand the law they are enforcing or are abusing the power they are given. a few notes before posting the info:

officers do NOT need to prove your exhaust is loud. if they think it is, they can write you up for it. it is up to their discretion. does this suck? yes. but that's just how it is.
they CAN use this as an excuse to pull you over. they can then start poking around your car for other issues, however, popping your hood is not one of them. to pop your hood, they usually use:

Quote :

Division 2, chapter 4, article 1 VC2804
A member of the California Highway Patrol upon reasonable belief that any vehicle is being operated in violation of any provisions of this code or is in such unsafe condition as to endanger any person, may require the driver of the vehicle to stop and submit to an inspection of the vehicle, and its equipment, license plates, and registration card.

so, when they are popping your hood they use this VC to say they are performing a "safety inspection". part of this includes popping your hood. to say "i think you have illegal modifications, so pop your hood" is B.S. they can not do that. however, there is nothing you can do about it as they don't have anyone to check them. they can not search your car on a "hunch" but they do. if you feel like fighting the big fight, feel free. but prepared to have your car impounded and be cited/jailed in the mean time. after all that, good luck finding anyone who cares. nobody cares that a kid owning a honda got harassed.
the information on VC2804 was relayed to us by an actual officer. was he correct? i don't know. but it's what he stated. take it as you will.

now. on to the muffler issues:

here are the VCs

Quote :

Adequate Muffler Required

27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device.

(b) Except as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000) with respect to off-highway motor vehicles subject to identification, every passenger vehicle operated off the highways shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained so as to meet the requirements of Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200), and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device.

(c) The provisions of subdivision (b) shall not be applicable to passenger vehicles being operated off the highways in an organized racing or competitive event conducted under the auspices of a recognized sanctioning body or by permit issued by the local governmental authority having jurisdiction.

what is "any excessive or unusual noise"? well:

Quote :

Modification of Exhaust Systems

27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified.

(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to, nonoriginal exhaust equipment.

and how is this 95dB to be measured? easy. this info is from a CHP bulletin (i do not have the bulletin number):

Quote :

Exhaust Noise Limits: California regulations contain a number of sections specifying permissible vehicle noise levels. The Bulletin advises that passenger car exhaust systems [Q9] that comply with the requirements of Section 1036(d)(1), 13 CCR are deemed to comply with Vehicle Code enforcement Sections 27150 and 27151, governing mufflers and exhaust system modifications. [Q10]. The exhaust noise provisions in 1036(d)(1) establish a limit of 95 dB(A) measured 20 inches from the exhaust pipe outlet with the engine operating in neutral, at a specified speed typically between 3000 and 5000 rpm (see regulations for details). [Q9]. Exhaust system modifications are permitted to increase noise above the level of original factory installed systems as long as the 95-decibel limit is not exceeded. [Q10]

more info from the bulletin:

Quote :

The Bulletin acknowledges that exhaust modifications that increase noise may be legal under California regulations and that exhaust systems which meet a 95-decibel noise limit (13 CCR 1036(d)(1)), are deemed to comply with California's modified exhaust enforcement provisions (Vehicle Code Sections 27150 and 27151). [Q2 & Q10]. The document also advises that the California Vehicle Code does not automatically prohibit modifications that increase exhaust system noise levels over that of factory-installed systems. [Q2].

feel free to google any of this you like. it is all from california's vehicle code and CHP bulletins. i have quoted all the information above and did not write ANY of it on my own words, nor have i intrepreted any of the information. it's all word-for-word. i keep a copy in my glove box at all times. i WOULD like to find the bulletin number involved, though. if anyone can add that to this thread, i'd appreciate it. a bit of added info:

- Can local authorities enact or enforce more strict ordinances regarding vehicle noise?

No (!!!!!!!!). Section 21 VC makes the VC applicable and uniform throughout the state.

again, the PD and CHP do not play by the rules. they will still pull you over, they will still pop your hood, and they will still write you up. if you feel the need to use this information during a stop to ask questions, feel free to do so, as it is your right, but i would advise you to be polite and respectful. there is nothing wrong with asking questions, but acting like a know-it-all ricer prick will only make things worse for you. if you cannot communicate on an educated level, it's probably best to just keep your mouth shut and bring all this information to court.

another note: C.A.R.B exemption applies ONLY to parts of the exhaust between the exhaust mainfold and cat converter. i will find the VC for this and post it later. the reasons are explained in a short notice from A.R.B. here:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/manuals/electronics/carb.pdf

i urge everyone to do their part in making these citation be issued legitimately. yes, it's easier to just pay the fine and move on, but that just encourages their behavior.

hopefully there puts most of your questions and concerns to rest. i do not have any "what if" and "what about" answers. i only know what i have researched and posted above.

last but not least, here is a muffler shop's attempt at educating the public, as they are as outraged as the rest of us.

http://www.bobsmuffler.com/noise.htm
good luck!

+1 Rep; good read the guy who pulled me over quoted this

27151. "(a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified."

Of course conveniently leaving out the first part... fucking prick

Might just help to print this out and keep it in your car. These cops are hungry as hell from money

Pavin wrote:

+1 Rep; good read the guy who pulled me over quoted this

27151. "(a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified."

Of course conveniently leaving out the first part... fucking prick

Might just help to print this out and keep it in your car. These cops are hungry as hell from money

they pulled the same thing on a friend of mine. luckily Rob (my friend) knew the law and asked the officer about it. it went down something like:

"i pulled you over for illegal exhaust"
"why is illegal?"
"because it's not stock"
"it doesn't have to be as long as it's under 95dB"
"well.. there's a VC that says it can't be modified at all"
"oh, you mean the one that states it can't be modified PRE CAT without a C.A.R.B. exemption?"

from what rob says the cop was speechless, as he obviously pulled over a guy that knows a bit about the law and had no problem saying so. of course, Rob was friendly the whole time. no accusations, no smart-ass attitude, just casual conversation.
they like to twist it around and leave out certain information. i have all this printed and in my glove box and will bring it out if i'm ever pulled over. my plan is to have my phone out so i can video the whole conversation. i would like to get everything he says on record, ESPECIALLY after i show him the VCs.
should be interesting.

what got me started on being so anal about all this is getting one of these tickets myself. when i went down to CPD to have it signed off, the woman at the desk said, and i shit you not, "you have to go to the dealership, have them install an OEM muffler, then bring the paperwork back. then we can sign it off". WHAT THE FUCKZZ? i've never heard such horrible misinformation in my life. needless to say i was pissed. i had an officer sign it off for me after hearing the car.. but i never forgot.

as i've said before i really, really, REALLY have issues with people being bullied or taken advantage of. this is why i spent so much time putting this information together.

keep in mind, the cop will still do whatever he wants, if he decides to be a jerk. my advice if he's making up his own rules and threatening you with an impound or jail time? request the watch commander to respond to the call. even if you still get the ticket (and have to fight in in court), at least you made the situation as much a pain for them as they made for you.

and again, for christ's sake, be nice, guys. all this information does no good when you give them attitude!

What if the muffler itself is carb but loud? My brother is running a carb flowmaster but im pretty sure it might be over 95db

Mynes_3 wrote:

What if the muffler itself is carb but loud? My brother is running a carb flowmaster but im pretty sure it might be over 95db

Mynes_3 wrote:

What if the muffler itself is carb but loud? My brother is running a carb flowmaster but im pretty sure it might be over 95db

you cant get a carb muffler, if i read that correctly. new cats have to have a carb number, but i doubt the mufflers come with one.

C.A.R.B has nothing to do with mufflers. And if it's over 95dB, then it's illegal.

Ahhhh got it!

i find the best way to avoid this whole headache/mess is to have a daily driver. The modified cars only comes out on special occasion and around the block. sucks but will have to be like this until i'm out of California for good.

Mynes_3 wrote:

Ahhhh got it!

.....and knowing is half the battle, brother!

94RSIntegra wrote:

i find the best way to avoid this whole headache/mess is to have a daily driver. The modified cars only comes out on special occasion and around the block. sucks but will have to be like this until i'm out of California for good.

I've gone that route. It was nice. Oh, and I neeeeeveeeer drive on Blackstone during the weekend.

This really made me have a second thought about getting an exhaust for my fit. Yes, my fit. Ill either look further into it or probably wont even bother. Great info. +1

Technically, they can pull you over for a stock exhaust. It's happened to a lot of SR-T owners.

I got a response from greddy about my cat back and told them about my situation...here's what they said...


Hi,

Thank you for your inquiry.  This exhaust does not have CARB since it is a cat-back exhaust.  DB level is tested in house to CA standard of below 95db. If a silencer is required, one is installed during assembly.  Please keep in mind other modifications the intake and exhaust system will alter db level. Unfortunately, we do not possess power of authority so we cannot tell you to take your car to a referee station or not.  This will solely be your decision.

Thanks!



So if anybody gets pulled over for exhaust will have to go through state ref...dude probably mentioned it up the post already...

da9bigboi wrote:

I got a response from greddy about my cat back and told them about my situation...here's what they said...


Hi,

Thank you for your inquiry.  This exhaust does not have CARB since it is a cat-back exhaust.  DB level is tested in house to CA standard of below 95db. If a silencer is required, one is installed during assembly.  Please keep in mind other modifications the intake and exhaust system will alter db level. Unfortunately, we do not possess power of authority so we cannot tell you to take your car to a referee station or not.  This will solely be your decision.

Thanks!



So if anybody gets pulled over for exhaust will have to go through state ref...dude probably mentioned it up the post already...

correct. C.A.R.B. only covers emission-related parts. a muffler has nothing to do with it. C.A.R.B. exemption are required for anything from the catalytic converter forward. you could probably get paperwork from Greddy showing their testing policy and their compliance with California's dB requirement, but you can still get a ticket if the officer decides to write it.
as for seeing a ref: if you can't find an officer to sign your ticket off, then you will need to break down and go to the ref, unless there is a ref sticker on the back of the ticket, as then you would have to go either way.
this is all assuming the law hasn't changed where a dB violation is now, automatically a ref visit. Fresno can not change the law itself. it would need to be a california decision. not to say they won't try to act like it, though.
as mentioned above: a lot of the officers and workers at the stations don't know the law or don't care so choose to impose their own. not a whole lot we can do other than keep running in circles until we get it resolved.

The chp sign off wouldnt work anymore. I went and it wasn't good enuff. I didn't have any stickers/stamps on my back ticket. You would have to see ref for a sound off. No smog unless it was cited for emission like illegal parts. Intake/headers etc... Just pay the bail if you can't get ER done

da9bigboi wrote:

The chp sign off wouldnt work anymore. I went and it wasn't good enuff. I didn't have any stickers/stamps on my back ticket. You would have to see ref for a sound off. No smog unless it was cited for emission like illegal parts. Intake/headers etc... Just pay the bail if you can't get ER done

who denied the signature?

It was the lady at the 3rd window. I went 2 times. First it was window 3. That was when my ticket wasn't in the system. So she said come back when I get a letter in the mail. But during that time she said she was positive it was state ref. than when I came back with the chp sign off 2-3 weeks later when i recieved my letter i went back...this time It was lady in window 4. She took it and said ok. $25. My dumb ass said. "OK SO I DON'T HAVE TO STATE REF RIGHT" ....and she goes hold up...ugghhhh ahhhhh. Fawked myself over lol..Double checks with somebody. Yup I had to go get it signed off by state ref...if I did get it signed off. I would had to pay

$25 traffic court fees
$110-125 state ref fees


Bail out was $235
So it was about $100 more so I just bail. I don't want to bar my motor yet. So state ref label my car as not exact motor. What does that mean. Would that go into records?

da9bigboi wrote:

It was the lady at the 3rd window. I went 2 times. First it was window 3. That was when my ticket wasn't in the system. So she said come back when I get a letter in the mail. But during that time she said she was positive it was state ref. than when I came back with the chp sign off 2-3 weeks later when i recieved my letter i went back...this time It was lady in window 4. She took it and said ok. $25. My dumb ass said. "OK SO I DON'T HAVE TO STATE REF RIGHT" ....and she goes hold up...ugghhhh ahhhhh. Fawked myself over lol..Double checks with somebody. Yup I had to go get it signed off by state ref...if I did get it signed off. I would had to pay

$25 traffic court fees
$110-125 state ref fees


Bail out was $235
So it was about $100 more so I just bail. I don't want to bar my motor yet. So state ref label my car as not exact motor. What does that mean. Would that go into records?

i'm assuming you mean at the court house? and if you are getting a ticket handled, NEVER ask "are you sure?". LOL. no bueno.

just remember: with a lot of these citations, you can only pay twice before you MUST go to the ref. i don't know if this is one of them.